I'm all up for being hungry causes a detriment to your person, but some people don't quite like the idea. I'm not admitting that it's a perfect system for now, but I don't say that it's a bad one either. At this point, after the adjustments Calvin made, food actually has a use now. The failure to take into account your hunger before setting out will cause a player to consider eating before going out - otherwise they would have to sit around and do nothing. Furthermore, it sort of encourages players to continue being active on the MUD, as opposed to just being idling in one spot forever. Players will now have to find and eat food.
Food is relatively inexpensive and filling up before you head for the killing fields isn't something hard to do. It takes two days for it deplete after you're completely filled up. It isn't something that is either terribly difficult or terribly expensive.
However, some people don't like the way that food is being handled. There are some who wants it disposed of entirely. They say it's annoying and does nothing but to just complicate the way the game is played. I'm not going to state what other dissent there is, for fear of mishandling their complaints and getting it all wrong.
I'm putting this discussion out there to see where things go with this, and if we should remove food's effects from the game. I would like a frank, and sincere discussion with this, and not just "OMG FOOD STUPID" or "U SHUD EAT, IS GOOD" discussion. Lets talk about this, and not yell at each other, that's just not productive.
Brennan 05:52, 4 March 2008 (PST)
I think the best way to handle it is to make it optional. Just like PvP is optional, so too should having to buy and eat food be optional. If you're into the whole HnS thing and want deeper gameplay in that respect, its fine, but people who just RP or chat shouldn't be forced to.
Also I think new players should be defaulted to not have to eat, since its hard enough to keep new people around as it is. The first time a new person gets stranded and doesn't know why is probably the last time they'll play.
Personally, I don't think it prevents people from going idle, or if it does, its not in any kind of meaningful way. Just long enough to get food/eat the food you have. Thats another thing, people just carrying around two tons of apples or pies or whatever, so they don't have to move to get food. I try to keep my inventory kinda tidy, and I think its irritating to have to read about what kind of non-RP baked goods someone is carrying around. If you can come up with a system that forces people to describe their characters better and RP more often, I'd be all for it, though.
I think that the effects of food are something of a secondary issue, but I've been here all of two or three days and don't know shit. This means it's now time to pose a tangentally related question and answer it, instead of having a real opinion on the actual issue!
Here's the tangental question that I think may be a larger issue: How inviolate is the player?
I don't know what it really is intended to be. PvP appears to be optional, and I don't know what happens with death outside of XP debt. To me, someone that just came in and knows little, it looks that a person's inventory is sacred. No matter what, I've always got my potato and tassled fez. This means I can sit around and if I don't do anything, nothing will happen. I am a pillar of granite jutting from the desert. The opposite of this situation is stepping into the wrong sewers, where angry people do things that expand your mind and anal cavity with little warning.
If we are mostly in control of our bodies, I'd say that how things are is okay (if a little slow). If we're not, I'd say speed it up and make it deadlier (but please add ways to forage for food! like scavenging cans out of burned out cars, robbing old stores and vaults, recipes for wilderness people, etc.).
I actually like Kab's idea - a handy switch of two or maybe three states. The middle state would be close to where we are now, which is something to keep track of but nothing vital. The top end would be IRON MAN SURVIVAL MODE, where we're all Ted Nugent with a tapeworm. The low end would be IRRADIATED ZOMBIE MODE, where we cannot seriously interact with consumable items. No need or ability to consume food. Maybe not even the ability to fire guns, just shamble about and hit stuff with things and other stuff. I'd love the hell out of that one.
With regards to beginners, Kabatic, if I recall correctly, PA points don't really matter until you hit level 5, at that point of time they start affecting you adversely.
I've had this discussion with Kabatic earlier, but if you place options with people, most of the time, they would want to take the easy way out and just have it that they wouldn't need food anyway. That defeats the purpose of putting a detriment in.
I have another suggestion:
The current way hunger works is that once you hit starving to death, you stop regeneration of health, mental, and physical altogether. Now this is an issue for most people who like to stand around and idle - but how about stopping regeneration of H/M/P past a certain value instead - so that you'll still have enough action points to move about, and fight, but probably not to even use special moves.
For example, if you are hungry, you will only recover health, mental, and physical regeneration at 20hp/ma/pa. That's like your new max value until you get food in you.
Just a suggestion.
Brennan 11:16, 4 March 2008 (PST)
I personally see no real problem with the food system as it stands. The rate that food ticks down has been greatly reduced. I filled up last week, and I haven't hit hungry yet. The only part that might warrant consideration is what to do with idle people, but I'm not sure that is such a big deal. Maybe after 2hrs of idle time, we put them into hibernation mode?
Squid 15:05, 4 March 2008 (PST)
There's no problem with the food system, but with the way it is I don't see a huge reason for it to be there. Eating once a week isn't near enough to provide any kind of drive to seek food. Forcing people to eat every six hours or die is a little harsh too, especially with how much people like to idle.
Here's another suggestion that seems to fit better - food is tied to regeneration. Every H/M/P point you regenerate sucks a point from the mysterious Food Total. Running out of food means running out of regeneration. People that do a lot and regenerate a lot have to eat, and idlers can remain as they are indefinitely. Seems like a decent median?
I like the idea of having to eat, it's not a big of a hassle to go find food, it's plentiful and butcher is an easy skill to learn, I've played for about a week now and haven't noticed being hungry once, and have only eatten a few things of gel-O, if you get stuck without food and stop healing PA, you can always recall, the graveyard has food. Slightly off topic, people idling I would say force them to logout after 15 min of idle, if they're just sitting there doing nothing, they arn't contributing to the game rp or HnS wise.
If I had to log back in after 15 minutes of idle, I probably wouldn't play. 15 minutes is way too short for anything like that. Waiting for your turn in an RP could take that long. Plus, people idle but still read the chat. Also its easier to get people TO do something if they're still logged on. As long as they aren't preventing HnS or RP, they're not doing any harm, so the dropping of idle people doesn't make sense.
As for the food, how about not being able to fight back unless you've eaten? It doesn't bother the people who don't HnS, and its incentive for the people who do to make sure they eat and have food on them.
Though I’m a newbie to this particular MUD, I’m a big fan of the post apocalyptic theme and I think obtaining food and other necessities adds to the down-to-earth realism that is key to this kind of game. To make food less of a nuisance though, perhaps it should boost stats while not severally impairing a character’s ability to function by slowing down his regeneration rate. For example, a character that doesn’t bother with food would have no problems, but one who eats some meat every few days would get a slight boost to his strength.
There should be some STRONG incentive for players to seek out sustenance since it’s such a huge part of the feel of this kind of setting.